Latest section of Sustrans/BCC connect2 route opens.

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Permalink Reply by Richard Smith on November 14, 2011 at 17:30

It's really rather impressive (to me, anyway).

 

I've been on the pathway BUT it does seem to be some kind of gravelly surface which you

speed on at your peril.

 

Was this the idea....to slow people down? 

 

Given that the smallest stone can cause wobbles or even falls from your bike, I was

a bit diappointed with the choice of surface used.

 

I really don't want to pour cold water on all this because it's a great route - am I alone in thinking this?    

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Permalink Reply by Andy Robinson on November 14, 2011 at 18:22

You are not alone. The surfacing (tar spray and chip) has been a contentions issue since the first new sections were completed 18 months ago. BCC has a policy of using just plain asphalt in public parks but to provide a surface in country parks and other similar non highways areas they have traditionally gone for a different look. The work in New Hall Valley Country park that was completed prior to Connect2 was surfaced with a product called Fiberdec (there is also a section of it in the Cole Valley). This and other named products that are available on the market are propriety and thus tend to be expensive. The current funding for connect2 needed to use something else to keep cost down. "Tar spray and chip" was specified by BCC and has been used on all the new sections alongside Plants Brook plus the section in Rectory Park (something campaigned for by the Friends of the Park).

 

The problem has been that the chippings have not bonded well in the tar. Also we have argued the quantity of chippings put down was too high. The section between New Hall Country Park and Penns Lane has been down the longest and the loose material has had time to migrate, mostly into the Brook. On the newest section (Penns Lane to Eachelhurst Road) BCC has just completed a removal of much of the excess and as a result its now much better on all types of bike (I'm regularly up and down it on 28c's). The jury is out as to whether any more needs to be done but its an item that's being closely watched by BCC, Sustrans and the community steering group on which I sit.

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Permalink Reply by Graham Lennard on November 14, 2011 at 22:48

It's not a route to "Speed on at your Peril".. or at the peril of other users -  pedestrians and the disabled - it's a muliti user route and needs all users to use it in way that considers other users.. and I have to say that some cyclists are generally being the least considerate -  some riding too fast and too close when passing pedestrians.  The initial excess chippings is a feature of tar spray and chip surfacing (even Fibredec -  which has glass fibres for added strength).  If there were no initial excess, the chippings freshly bedded into the tar spray would just get eroded out.  As Andy says we have just raked off the excess on the new section and a good riding and environmentally pleasing surface is the result.  Raking off is done on other examples of tar spry and chip routes that Sustrans hold up as best practice.   On future routes like this we will be using a resin bonded surface at path junctions, tight bends and where cyclists will be turning or braking.  This material is very costly and could not be afforded over long lengths of route.

Richard Smith said:

It's really rather impressive (to me, anyway).

 

I've been on the pathway BUT it does seem to be some kind of gravelly surface which you

speed on at your peril.

 

Was this the idea....to slow people down? 

 

Given that the smallest stone can cause wobbles or even falls from your bike, I was

a bit diappointed with the choice of surface used.

 

I really don't want to pour cold water on all this because it's a great route - am I alone in thinking this?    

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Permalink Reply by Simon on November 15, 2011 at 9:39

As it 'appens I finally got around to riding the new section last week - went from God Hope down along the new section, onto the canal, under spag jnct, up onto the N section of the N Brum route, up through Brookvale and Witton Lakes and off at the section just past Margaret Mary's.

 

As a leisure ride I found most* of it very very enjoyable, and I'm sure that it will encourage new cyclists to venture out.  The surface does seem a lot better compared to when I last rode it - much more grip, but there again I was using 1.5 inch tyres...still wouldn't like to do it on a 23mm road bike.  Also, there are a couple of sections that could be improved vision-wise, couple of bends where small children or dogs are hidden from view until the last minute.  Yes, I know that we should ride at an appropriate speed for these, but not everyone is us.

 

* apart from the canal bit. I 'ates canal riding - despite full mud guards I still ended up filthy.

 

But my issue with it would still be using it as a commuter route into the city centre.  For a commute of two or three miles it is probably fine -  such a short commute will allow you to go slow as befitting such a path.  But if you are going all the way into the centre then you'd probably want to go a little faster and so this route becomes a little unsuitable.  This is not so much a moan at those who built it - I think that they've done very well with what they had to work with, but rather the ethos that seems to prevail in councils these days: that cycle commuter routes should go all around the houses and have surfaces less good than the road.

 

However, I would still draw people's attention to the section past Margaret Mary's when considering using this kind of surface again - rutted, really bumpy, pools of water, and does a very good job of holding onto the broken glass.  Not nice at all.  Not helped by the remains of a metal post sticking up out of the ground in the middle of it - all jagged and ready to rip tyres and skin - that the council don't seem to be interested in doing anything about.

 

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Permalink Reply by Andy Robinson on November 15, 2011 at 10:13

Pleased to hear you enjoyed the ride.

The point about commuting I believe depends on your cycling perspective, If a person is thinking of commuting but hasn't then a predominately off road flat(ish) route is very tempting. Hopefully it encourages those that might otherwise say "no way" to have a go. Of course as your cycling competence and confidence improves you start to revisit your earlier point of view and perhaps start to vary your route and maybe do some sections on road. Ultimately you head down to the Fort, buy an expensive steed and swear never to go down a muddy towpath again! But then thats the whole point isnt it? If new routes encourage more cycling that can only be a good thing.

As I'm actively involved with Connect2 I get to see the impact of these new routes on the ground. The numbers of new users (both walkers and cyclists) is real. On a weekend the numbers passing up and down the route is impressive. And its not just families out for a ride. I've been really encouraged by the number of couples who are out on new bikes. I see them not just on the route itself but cycling to and from it within the local neighbourhoods. Bike North Birmingham will help the area grow in terms of cycling awareness, exposure and acceptance. I just wish there was enough money to roll out these efforts city wide. Its something the campaign groups, fundraisers and grant chasers out there really need to think about.

What I hope in a few years time is that difficult sections of route (like in Perry Common) are perceived differently by all and through pressure and need more effort is given to ensuring they remain the real public amenity they are designed to be.

We can but hope.

 

Cheers

Andy

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Permalink Reply by Simon on November 15, 2011 at 14:03

Of course as your cycling competence and confidence improves you start to revisit your earlier point of view and perhaps start to vary your route and maybe do some sections on road.

 

Yes, you are entirely right there. I guess that we can sometimes tend to just see things based upon our own preferred behaviours. I guess that I want my cake and I want to eat it: I'd like a nice scenic traffic free route that takes me directly to where I want to go, lets me use narrow tyres and lets me go at a good (but sensible) speed.  This is the kind of facility that we never really seem to see. On the other hand though, if things like the C2 route inspire more people to cycle, and if they then 'graduate' to using the road, then the roads will become a lot nicer for everyone to cycle on and this middle ground facility won't be needed.

 

Am looking forward to seeing what the Bike North Birmingham has to offer (and to help out in any way that I can if you need help) as that looks like it is more focussed on the sort of riding that I do.

 

 

 

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Permalink Reply by Robert on December 27, 2011 at 18:34

I finally managed to try it today (returning via NCN 535), and I have to say that whilst I found it scenic I found the gravel sections *very* slow going because the path (which is narrow and has poor visibility) was crowded with pedestrians, dogs (mostly off-leash), and very young children on bikes (who always stop after a few metres and turn broadside on because their parents are walking rather than doing the obvious and keeping up with their children with the aid of a bike).   The gravel is still lose but I had no problems on my tourer.   Signposting is generally much, much better than on other parts of the NCN in Brum.   However, given that both the British education system and British (Ordnance Survey) maps have been metric for half a century or more, why on Earth are these new signs in imperial?   Surely the signage doesn't come under the remit of the dinosaurs at the Department for Transport (who insist on imperial even if it means bridge strikes)?   British Waterways have gone metric, so isn't it about time BCC and Sustrans joined them in this century?   Just applied my map measurer (from amazon.uk and metric only) to my (metric) OS map and its says I did 45km today.

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Permalink Reply by John KIRK on December 28, 2011 at 0:06

Hi Andy.Very good progress indeed.I won't use it myself but anything that encourages cycling and walking is good.What I would love to see next is a cycle and bus lane all the way along the A453 from Sutton Coldfield to Perry Barr to join up with the Birchfield to Newtown section into the City Centre. There is room for such a thing, but is there the will from BCC?

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Permalink Reply by Sarah-Jane on December 28, 2011 at 10:33

I tried the route myself a few weeks ago on a weekday morning - I can see it has potential, well signposted and connected to other routes. The surface was loose in places but I understand that's being dealt with.

However, I saw very few people and only three other bikes. I guessed it would be a popular Sunday afternoon family jaunt, but I wondered how useful it will be as a commuter route, especially into the city centre. If the intention is to attract new cyclists, I think some people, especially women, might find it a bit isolated. For much of the year, most people's commute is in the dark but the route is well away from street lighting for the most part. I'm not suggesting it gets floodlit, but something like the solar powered studs along the River Rea would be useful. They don't contribute anything in terms of illumination, but the way they mark the track ahead is very reassuring.

The gripes about the River Rea route actually demonstrate its success because it's so well used - hopefully this new route will encourage more people out on their bikes in North Birmingham.

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Permalink Reply by Rob not Bob on December 28, 2011 at 10:40

I second that John, a cycle path along that route is needed and possible given that it is duel carriage way most of the route 

John KIRK said:

Hi Andy.Very good progress indeed.I won't use it myself but anything that encourages cycling and walking is good.What I would love to see next is a cycle and bus lane all the way along the A453 from Sutton Coldfield to Perry Barr to join up with the Birchfield to Newtown section into the City Centre. There is room for such a thing, but is there the will from BCC?

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Permalink Reply by John KIRK on December 28, 2011 at 11:08

Yes - it is dual carriageway, and mostly has a central reservation and wide pavements  that could be trimmed to accommodate an extra lane in each direction. Then the pinch points at the M6 bridge and the semi-death roundabout at Birchfield/Perry Barr could be dealt with. I think this would have a far greater impact on commuting by bike than the country park/canal  solutions;good though those are for beginners and those scared (with some justification)  of the roads.

Rob not Bob said:

I second that John, a cycle path along that route is needed and possible given that it is duel carriage way most of the route 

John KIRK said:

Hi Andy.Very good progress indeed.I won't use it myself but anything that encourages cycling and walking is good.What I would love to see next is a cycle and bus lane all the way along the A453 from Sutton Coldfield to Perry Barr to join up with the Birchfield to Newtown section into the City Centre. There is room for such a thing, but is there the will from BCC?

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Permalink Reply by Robert on December 28, 2011 at 11:38

Sarah-Jane Watkinson said:

lighting for the most part. I'm not suggesting it gets floodlit, but something like the solar powered studs along the River Rea would be useful. They don't contribute anything in terms of illumination, but the way

The section through Pype Hayes Park does have solar-powered studs (at least partly), but it goes across an open area so I would imagine they are more useful here than on the sections surrounded on both sides by either a fence or rough ground.   I got the impression that the route was less threatening than NCN 535, though the canal up from Spag J was a tad creepy, with several decidedly dodgy-looking individuals on the towpath.   That said one tough-looking young man with an Alsation turned out to be friendly and considerate, like most of the people I encountered, whilst everyone else just left me alone.

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