Birmingham Cyclist

Cycling in and around Birmingham England

Lorry Driver pleads guilty to dangerous driving

BBC Story on Kings Heath fatal crash

sentence will be handed down on 2nd April.

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cough... dictatorship :)

CKS said:

In that case, thanks for the warnings.
 
LS said:

I don't think you would be dropping me or the site sponsors in anything.

You are solely responsible for your conduct and your content on the Network and compliance with these terms.

http://www.birminghamcyclist.com/main/authorization/termsOfService

I believe that the Traffic Commissioner can revoke the facility to drive HGVs whilst a licence holder can still drive cars etc, for a number of reasons, which can include repute of the driver. It is rarely done, as the TC, like CPS does not want to lose in Court, but I do wonder if this is a case to press?

If HGV drivers sit too high to see what is immediately in front of them then perhaps it would be a good idea for them to stop further away from the lights than other traffic?  Perhaps there should be some sort of campaign to encourage this? 

 

Pedestrians should be made aware of this danger in the same way that cyclists are made aware of the danger of going down the side of HGVs.

I recommend a viewing of Robin Webb's memorial video for his daughter, killed in London by an HGV, it very clearly shows what is wrong with the fundamental design of the trucks being used in our cities. These designs with macho trucker in the sky are totally unnecessary for making urban deliveries, and require a small forest of mirrors and now calls for other secondary/indirect 'vision' facilities. All of which can get broken or false read, and each presenting yet another separate call on the driver's attention (many diligent drivers are now voicing concern about the sheer number of detectors and mirrors thay have to watch in addition to actually looking where they are going)

The answer is actually to put the driver back down at a common eye-level with other road users outside, so that they have a direct line of vision to the cyclist or pedestrian alongside or in front of their vehicle, AND the pedestrian and cyclist can look in to the cab and be assured that the driver has seen them, and if not, make very sure they have been noticed.

Trucks with low cabs do exist, they cost a little bit more, because as yet they are not a mainstream production model, and the ones that are produced often have cromalloy steel chassis and other better quality construction. These trucks are very commonly used for refuse collection, and smaller urban delivery loads, where the 'walk-in' cab for the other crew members, means fewer injuries sustained slipping and falling from the steps up into the old high cabs, as they get in and out to load or unload. Take a look and get some pictures, and perhaps ask your local Council why trucks with this type of cab are not specified for all their refuse trucks and local delivery vehicles, as standard Council policy. Ask the local brewery when their local delivery drays will all have walk-in cabs - I've seen them in London.

Not on the right machine here, but I have overlaid a standard bike on the drawings of the Dennis-Eagle Elite 2 cab (the truck is manufactured in the W Midlands). There is also the Mercedes Econic, which offers the same walk-in facility. Keep your eyes open and I'm sure you'll see a few around, and be amazed that you can be alongside and look in at the driver from head to waist - take a picture too - I'm a bit short of decent low cab pictures.  This is the sort of truck we should be using in town, when a truck is required for the delivery. 

 

I agree, the design of HGVs are clearly falling short of what should be reasonable modern safety standards in design.
I believe the London cycling campaign designed their own a little while back http://lcc.org.uk/articles/lcc-challenges-construction-industry-to-...


Dave Holladay said:

I recommend a viewing of Robin Webb's memorial video for his daughter, killed in London by an HGV, it very clearly shows what is wrong with the fundamental design of the trucks being used in our cities. These designs with macho trucker in the sky are totally unnecessary for making urban deliveries, and require a small forest of mirrors and now calls for other secondary/indirect 'vision' facilities. All of which can get broken or false read, and each presenting yet another separate call on the driver's attention (many diligent drivers are now voicing concern about the sheer number of detectors and mirrors thay have to watch in addition to actually looking where they are going)

The answer is actually to put the driver back down at a common eye-level with other road users outside, so that they have a direct line of vision to the cyclist or pedestrian alongside or in front of their vehicle, AND the pedestrian and cyclist can look in to the cab and be assured that the driver has seen them, and if not, make very sure they have been noticed.

Trucks with low cabs do exist, they cost a little bit more, because as yet they are not a mainstream production model, and the ones that are produced often have cromalloy steel chassis and other better quality construction. These trucks are very commonly used for refuse collection, and smaller urban delivery loads, where the 'walk-in' cab for the other crew members, means fewer injuries sustained slipping and falling from the steps up into the old high cabs, as they get in and out to load or unload. Take a look and get some pictures, and perhaps ask your local Council why trucks with this type of cab are not specified for all their refuse trucks and local delivery vehicles, as standard Council policy. Ask the local brewery when their local delivery drays will all have walk-in cabs - I've seen them in London.

Not on the right machine here, but I have overlaid a standard bike on the drawings of the Dennis-Eagle Elite 2 cab (the truck is manufactured in the W Midlands). There is also the Mercedes Econic, which offers the same walk-in facility. Keep your eyes open and I'm sure you'll see a few around, and be amazed that you can be alongside and look in at the driver from head to waist - take a picture too - I'm a bit short of decent low cab pictures.  This is the sort of truck we should be using in town, when a truck is required for the delivery. 

 

Yes - the graphics use detail from the Dennis Elite truck as the basis for the 'safer urban truck' design I provided this to LCC and they delivered the visualisation of how it works to deliver the maximum zone of direct vision from the driving position.

Do press suppliers, Councils etc to specify this sort of vehicle for their own use, or for contractors use.

The question here is;  Why The professionals whose jobs are directly involving pedestrian/cyclist safety have NOT done this already?

They certainly knew about the issues as identified in their report 2006-  in which there is a clear acknowledgment of the threat to people/cyclists from the badly managed very heavy traffic on A435 Kings Heath High Street and a plan for action in regards to implementation of those....

They have then failed to implement it..No questions asked..No answers gained! More and more people have died in collisions with Lorries over the years.

They called those "Tragic Accidents" knowing well that it is far from the truth. They were all avoidable collisions resulting in one's public and violent death.

Did they realise that most people are good trusting citizens therefore they will not question the authorities?

Before I have brought it up as a bereaved mother, and showed people in the Atkins report the maintenance of the road surface and the crossing were years behind and neglected. Furthermore, the report shows the lights were dysfunctional, there was insufficient crossing time for the pedestrians. The width of the crossing was too small for the amount of the population crossing there daily- as this is one of the busiest roads of UK!

Will the community of cyclists please question this as a matter of urgency?

Anyone who wants to see the plan for 2006 and the Risk Assessment by the Atkins requested by myself and some local Councillors, I do have the originals here. Anyone who would like to see those please get in touch.

-where are the recommendations which should have been produced after re-occurring collisions between HGVs and vulnerable road users?

-Why there are no reports/recommendations produced by the Police and the Coroner in order to prevent further fatalities?

This simple act of moving the lines way back from the crossing in order to increase visibility of the pedestrian/cyclist in front of a lorry driver could most certainly have helped Hope in regards to her position at the side of the lorry and the elderly people before her death.

Following, every single incident the HGV drivers state that they were unable to see the person in front of them. 

It is not rocket science is it? It is just corruption and negligence by few.

Nazan-Hope's mum

CKS said:

If HGV drivers sit too high to see what is immediately in front of them then perhaps it would be a good idea for them to stop further away from the lights than other traffic?  Perhaps there should be some sort of campaign to encourage this? 

 

Pedestrians should be made aware of this danger in the same way that cyclists are made aware of the danger of going down the side of HGVs.

I myself have raised with Cllr Tahir Ali and others that the crossing where Hope was killed was still not functioning in a reasonable way long after her death.   As you say, Nazan, this isn't rocket science, but so far no-one from Birmingham City Council has been to see the country that is 40 years ahead of us in infrastructure design, even though it is just across the North Sea.   I don't know what their problem is.   Perhaps they fear discovering how out of date is their knowledge of infrastructure design.

One thing Chris and I learned at the meeting we had with Highways is that in this country crossings I designed to prioritise motorised traffic, apparently at all costs.   That's why pedestrians (and cyclists) have such a miserable experience trying to use them to cross roads all over Birmingham.

I too have wondered why truck drivers don't stop short of the stop line if they cannot see ahead of them (which in itself strikes me as a fundamental design flaw).   Earlier this week I used the zebra crossing on Bournville Lane, bringing an articulated truck to a halt.   Lo and behold, he stopped well short of the stop line.   Of course I'll never know for certain why he did that, but knowing what happened to Hope it did make me wonder.


Nice point.

I was also given a courtesy pause by a trucker last week. Other than giving him a thankful wave, I can't think of a way to show a deeper appreciation of that considerate kind of driving.


Robert said:

Earlier this week I used the zebra crossing on Bournville Lane, bringing an articulated truck to a halt.   Lo and behold, he stopped well short of the stop line.

Nazan, if those aren't rhetorical questions, my answer is that the people who should be taking charge are just not up to the task. Some of them are councillors - who are also subject to whims of party politics. Some of them are Council officers, whose priorities and attitudes are set behind the scenes, in ways you and I have little chance to influence. They will start to pay attention when there's a likely lawsuit in the offing. I haven't seen this tried anywhere, but if a council officer were taken to civil court for malfeasance, breach of contract or some such, I think there'd be some scrambling to find solutions.

Nazan Fennell said:

The question here is;  Why The professionals whose jobs are directly involving pedestrian/cyclist safety have NOT done this already?

...

-where are the recommendations which should have been produced after re-occurring collisions between HGVs and vulnerable road users?

-Why there are no reports/recommendations produced by the Police and the Coroner in order to prevent further fatalities?

...

It is not rocket science is it? It is just corruption and negligence by few.

Nazan-Hope's mum

David, I am aware that this has now become a political issue, and have been told this stuff that I have been doing for raising awareness is making a few very weary of me within the BCC, makes me wander why?

I have questioned the Police and the CPS in front of lawyers and witnesses as they would not let me use a tape recorder? These are facts and what I have witnessed many things in regards to how the system works. It really is shocking. Completely out of balance. Nicely put, there is a lot of room for improvement.

I disagree with you on the "you and I" have little influence on what happens behind closed doors.

I have and still going through it first hand. Gained much insight into how things work or better put how things are dysfunctional within the CJS. My experience is mostly documented and soon will be made available for everyone to see.

On a different note, in terms of change I am talking with Public Interest and Human Rights Lawyers. 

Judicial review which I believe is a way forward along with the Report 43 from the coroner.


David said:

Nazan, if those aren't rhetorical questions, my answer is that the people who should be taking charge are just not up to the task. Some of them are councillors - who are also subject to whims of party politics. Some of them are Council officers, whose priorities and attitudes are set behind the scenes, in ways you and I have little chance to influence. They will start to pay attention when there's a likely lawsuit in the offing. I haven't seen this tried anywhere, but if a council officer were taken to civil court for malfeasance, breach of contract or some such, I think there'd be some scrambling to find solutions.

Nazan Fennell said:

The question here is;  Why The professionals whose jobs are directly involving pedestrian/cyclist safety have NOT done this already?

...

-where are the recommendations which should have been produced after re-occurring collisions between HGVs and vulnerable road users?

-Why there are no reports/recommendations produced by the Police and the Coroner in order to prevent further fatalities?

...

It is not rocket science is it? It is just corruption and negligence by few.

Nazan-Hope's mum

Some of this could be the makings of an open letter - in Birmingham paper asking the Council why they had not acted on this report and why such information fails to be presented to the coroner.

A similar question might be asked of the Traffic Commissioners. Have they the bottle to get tougher and revoke a few more HGV licences where the licence holders have shown themselves unfit to drive trucks, through their driving behaviour.

Nazan - I am impressed by your strength through all this and ability to hold a coherent and powerful line of argument, through times which would see many in your position toiling under the strain. If you gain any strength through our virtual support I'm happy that it can come through BCC forum and other sources. 

In London over 2500 riders gathered with 24 hours notice when a rider was killed by an HGV to make the case for change, and over 8000 rode outside Parliament as cycling issues were debated on 2nd.  Theodore Roosevelt considered the key to successful conclusion for a campaign was to "Speak softly and carry a big stick" 

Some of your patient and meticulous work, has, behind it got a huge resource that has already shown that it can be that big stick, which won't be put away until the matters are sorted out.

On 26th, at the NEC there is the trade day for Cycle 2013 and Go Dutch seminar and it follows with 3 public days. Perhaps an opportunity to quietly but powerfully highlight a local case that shows the litany of failings, yet to be addressed. The cycling organisations there (CTC, BC will be there) The following week is Coach & Bus Live with a seminar on day 1 about reducing the frequency of collisions involving buses. http://coachandbuslive.com/live-master-class-theatre/  Norman Baker is scheduled to visit for the official opening, but this would not be the place for a noisy shout - there might be other options though.  

Perhaps also the consideration of the open letter, a campaigning tool with well over 2 centuries of effective distribution through the newspapers, and now even wider exposure online and on-screen. Just think back to J'Accuse, penned by Emile Zola to highlight the injustice of the Dreyfus case, and imagine how it would have worked on Twitter. The choice is to make this an individual letter or one signed by many, asking for answers in public, with perhaps refine it with a few folk DM/directly e-mailed to refine the wording appropriately to get greatest effect.

There are just too many people who have the need to write such letters in public to their local Council, Coroner, TAO, etc to ask why?   

 

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